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Show Notes 

We rip open the "UPF files" to reveal how industrial "Frankenstein" foods & emulsifiers are wrecking our health & stage a grooming intervention for resident primate Justin & his rogue nose hairs.

Wellness Unfiltered Episode 5: Ultra Processed Foods (UPFs), The Frankenstein in Your Fridge, Supermarket Minefields, and Why Your Nut Milk Might Be a "Gut Detergent" 🎙️

How do you spot ultra-processed foods (UPFs) hiding in "healthy" aisles, and why are they linked to leaky gut and inflammation? In this fiery episode, Lee Holmes and [Irene Falcone] rip open the UPF files, decode confusing labels, and share simple swaps to reclaim your pantry. They dive deep into the "Frankenstein" world of industrial foods, from fake meat burgers to sneaky plant milks, exposing emulsifiers like CMC (E466) and carrageenan (E407) that scrub your gut lining raw. Plus grooming tips for men and a listener's take on trusting health advice.

In this episode we chat about:

✨ What’s Popping: The "Low-archy" of Processing (02:04):

• Defining "Ultra": Lee breaks down the difference between standard processing (like olive oil or sourdough) and industrial ultra-processing that uses ingredients your grandmother wouldn't recognise. Plus outlines lab-reassembled foods with maltodextrin, soy lecithin (E322), and preservatives that stay fresh for weeks.

• Gut Detergents: Why we call emulsifiers "gut detergents" and how they keep your oils and waters from separating, at the cost of your stomach lining.

• The Bread, Milk and Protein Bar Trap: The truth about mass-produced white bread, why most plant-based milks are more chemistry than cooking and supermarket traps such as protein bars as candy bars.

🛒 The Hidden Science of the Supermarket (13:26):

• The Top 6 E-Numbers to Avoid: Lee shares her "avoid list," including Carrageenan (E407), Xanthan Gum (E415), and Soy Lecithin (E322) .

• The Leaky Gut Connection: How UPFs break down your protective mucus lining, leading to chronic inflammation and immune system triggers.

• Marketing Myths: Why a "Health Star Rating" can’t always be trusted and why "Certified Organic" is a better (though not perfect) guide.

🥤 Womansplain: The Primate Grooming Guide (34:38):

• Barber Basics: Moving beyond the $15 buzz cut and the importance of trimming "rogue hairs" in ears and noses.

• The "Two-in-One" Hack: Simple, toxin-free grooming for men using botanical brands and a clean shave and 3-in-1 wash.

• The One-Step Glow: Why Justin (and every man) only needs one good serum to look 10 years younger.

🔊 You’re On Speaker: Thrifting & Healthy Distrust (44:32):

• Second-Hand Superpowers: Listener Kate shares her secrets to a 10-year streak of buying nothing new and the joy of a $2 Vinnies find .

• Big Pharma & Scepticism: A deep dive into why "following the money" is your best asset when reading about medical "breakthroughs".

• The TGA Hack: How to use an AUST L number to see the hidden ingredients that aren't required to be on the physical label.

😤 Epic Rant: The "Fake Natural" Takeover (54:51):

• Irene’s Industry Insight: A passionate look at how "clean beauty" stores are losing their way by adding products filled with phenoxyethanol and silicones just to increase revenue.

• Lee calls out gut supplements with fake sugars.

Lee’s Nutritionist Nerd Notes

The UPF Hit List

• Protein Bars: Often just chocolate bars with lab-made isolates and artificial sweeteners. You’re better off with real chocolate.

• Supermarket Sourdough: If it has 15 ingredients (instead of flour, water, and salt), it’s a UPF.

• The "Energy Quicksand": How modified starches dump fast-digesting carbs into your blood while masking the food's true processed nature.

Simple Swaps for a Clean Gut 

• Nut milks: Make your own (nuts + water).

• Swap out fruit yoghurts for plain Greek yogurt with fresh berries

• Swap Supermarket White Bread for 3-ingredient sourdough

• Hummus: Homemade  is preferable to store bought (no seed oils/preservatives).

• Meat: Grass-fed organic meat or whole food proteins is better than fake burgers (soy isolates). 

🛡️ Fact-Check: UPF Myths

• Plant milks/creams often have gums for "creaminess."

• Soy Lecithin (E322)  can contribute to Microbiome Imbalance: Highly processed ingredients like soy lecithin can contribute to an increase in "bad" bacteria, upsetting the delicate balance of the microbiome. Consumption of these emulsifiers can lead to symptoms like bloating, gas, and a general "yucky" or tired feeling. In Australia, soy lecithin is often derived from GMO soy, but due to labelling exemptions for highly refined ingredients, this may not always be clearly stated on the packaging.

• Emulsifiers act as "gut detergents" that breakdown the stomach lining. Research, particularly on emulsifiers like carboxymethylcellulose (CMC) and polysorbate 80 (P80), supports this claim. Studies in mice and human microbiota models show these substances can directly alter microbiota to increase pro-inflammatory potential, cause bacteria to encroach into the protective mucus layer, and promote chronic intestinal inflammation.

• Xanthan gum is considered safe in food-standard amounts. However, it can cause bloating, gas, and diarrhea in some individuals. Emerging research suggests it might also alter the intestinal microbiome.

• Carrageenan (E407). Research suggests food-grade carrageenan may trigger inflammation, damage the digestive system’s mucus membranes, and increase intestinal permeability (leaky gut). A 2021 review also noted a possible link to relapse in inflammatory bowel disease (IBD).

The Health Star Rating is a voluntary system in Australia and has faced significant criticism. Critics argue it can be manipulated by companies replacing "risk nutrients" with synthetic ingredients, such as swapping sugar for sweeteners or fats for emulsifiers to improve their score without making the food objectively healthier. About 75% of ultra-processed foods displaying stars receive a "healthy" pass mark of 2.5 or more. 

Self-Care for Dudes Tips

• Mindful Eating: Slow down and chew your food to reduce bloating and gas.

• The Saltwater Rinse: Try Weleda Salt Toothpaste for a clean, smooth feel that lasts all day (and it's plastic-free!).

• Hydration: Cut back on alcohol to help with broken capillaries and skin dullness.

Men's Grooming Pack

• Weleda Salt Toothpaste (addictive clean). 

• Dr. Bronner's 3-in-1

• Weleda Aftershave

• Kora Noni Oil

• Natural Deodorant for Men (Natural Spray and Roll On with no aluminium and potassium alum)

Listen & Subscribe on [Substack], [Apple Podcasts], [Spotify, [YouTube) 

Follow us on Instagram:
[@wellnessunfilteredleeirene] | [@leesupercharged] | [@cleannectarine]

Join the conversation on Substack: [wellnessunfilteredpod.com]

P.S. Sponsor an episode? Email [wellnessunfilteredleeirene@gmail.com].

Disclaimer: This show is for educational purposes only. Please consult your qualified health professional before incorporating new wellness solutions.

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Podcast Transcript: Wellness Unfiltered Episode 5

Wellness Unfiltered Podcast: Transcription

Hosts: Lee Holmes and Irene Falcone

Segment: What’s Popping (The Engine Room)

 

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Irene: Well, hello out there from in here, in the cabin. You’re Lee?

Lee: And you’re Irene.

Both: And this is Wellness Unfiltered. Yay!

Irene: We are back in the cabin, and honestly, while the view and atmosphere is so calm and relaxing in here, I’m feeling so ready to just shake things up, Lee.

Lee: Oh, let's, Irene. Okay, so for newbies, our little Wednesday pod is where we take the rubbish out from our world of beauty, health, and wellness and place them in the appropriate colored bin for tomorrow morning's pickup.

Irene: Just as long as you take out the bins. We begin as always with What’s Popping. This segment is really the engine room of the show. So for anyone new to the cabin, this is where Lee and I tackle the big, juicy news and all things controversial that’s occupying our hearts and our minds. This week's What’s Popping topic is scorching our WhatsApp chat for weeks. I've got a big jug of water beside me—filtered, of course—with instructions for Justin to pour over me if it gets too heated; I can feel the steam coming out of my ears for this one.

Lee: Hang on a minute, where’s "Serene Irene" gone from last week?

Irene: Serene Irene might rhyme and sound all nice and calm, but the truth is, Irene is actually never serene.

Lee: Well, I do actually share your outrage on this soon-to-be-revealed topic today on the pod. And after we fire up in the first segment, we then get to cool our jets with Woman-splain and You’re On Speaker. Then we fire right back up again for your 60-second Rant or Rave to round out the ep. It’s going to be action-packed in here, so Irene, let’s get popping.

Irene: Okay, so today in What’s Popping, we’re prying open one of the most nefarious, insidious, dubious, and all other "ous" words in the filing cabinet: the UPF files, which stands for Ultra-Processed Foods. (Singing) Doo doo doo doo doo doo. I know it seems being processed wasn't enough for the big food boys; they had to ultra-fy it.

Lee: Don't even get me started on ultra-processed skincare and haircare as well. I think we should get into that because it's all sort of related. Just everyone wants to over-process everything. It sounds extraterrestrial, actually, but UPFs are absolutely everywhere. Every time I open the news, there’s a new study linking them to everything from mood swings to cancer. But Lee, I'm so stuck—what actually makes a food "ultra"? And how do we know when we're at the supermarket, because it's not actually listed on the label as "ultra-processed"?

Irene: I know, that is a very, very good question and a confusing topic for many people. I think firstly, just getting some clarity around the terminology is a really good place to start so we can see what we're actually dealing with. So today, I'd love to share the different degrees that foods are processed to begin with, and then highlight the good ones and then talk about the ones that are rubbish. So, think of it sort of like as a hierarchy—or in this case, a low-rarchy.

Irene: So, when it comes to processed foods, they’re things that your grandmother would recognize as cooking. So if you make it in your kitchen using standard ingredients—salt, oil, sugar, vinegar—it is likely to be processed. I mean, olive oil is processed, like a traditional sourdough or pickled veggies; they're all processed. But it's a simple processing of simple ingredients which are not too far from nature.

Irene: Ultra-processed foods, however, are an industrial science. This is where the food is broken down into chemical parts: you’ve got isolated proteins, starches, and fats, and then they're reassembled with additives that you do not have in your kitchen. And these are things like maltodextrin, E475, or your favorite word to pronounce, soy lecithin.

Lee: Come on, give it another go.

Irene: Soy... le-ke-ti-thin.

Lee: (Laughs) So these ingredients and foods are engineered to be hyper-palatable, so you know, you can't stop eating them, and they have a shelf life that defies nature.

Irene: Okay, so ultra-processed food is really the "Frankenstein" of food?

Lee: Yeah, Frankenstein, created by a scientist in a lab from body parts of—well, you know the story. Yeah, ultra-processed food is designed in a lab and it has this shelf life that kind of goes on forever and ever, and it often uses ingredients such as—well, I use the term "ingredients" really lightly—foods such as emulsifiers, which we personally call "gut detergents." They’re the things that keep oils and waters from separating.

Lee: And there are all these different kinds of ultra-processed foods. One of them is something that you would know: mass-produced bread. So when you look at it on the shelf, you know, you see a loaf of bread and it's soft and white and it stays fresh for two weeks. That's an ultra-processed food because within it, in the ingredients, it contains emulsifiers and preservatives to stop it from going hard.

Lee: So bread is a really good example of it. Other ones that you may not be aware of are things like plant-based milks. You know, the almond milks and the oat milks, because they’re water and oil, they also contain gums like guar gum and xanthan gum. So they're ultra-processed foods.

Lee: Breakfast cereals, even the healthy ones, are often coated in vitamins and sugars to make them look like food again. Especially diet and low-fat foods; when they take out the fat, they usually put in things like thickeners, stabilizers, and my sort of least favorite ingredient, which is artificial sweeteners, to make up for that lost texture. And then you have the things we were talking about last week: reconstituted meats, you know, the chicken nuggets, the lunch, the deli meats, the hams we've seen on the bus ads that you brought up last week. They're all glued together with starches and nitrates. And you know, before these foods even reach the supermarket shelves, they start their life as formulas. So it’s more chemistry than cooking.

Irene: That sounds so disgusting. But you know what's really frustrating? When you go into the supermarket, do you know I've gone into the supermarket before and I have spent an hour wandering around those aisles and ended up just walking out because I literally couldn't find anything that wasn't ultra-processed? But all of these things that you're talking about, they sound disgusting and like, "Oh, why would we eat them?" But literally the entire supermarket is full of them. So what do you even eat? Like, that's—oh, don't even get me started. I don't understand why they’re even legal, especially advertising. Like, you can't advertise cigarettes, but if these foods give us cancer, then why are they allowed to be sold? Like, the whole thing just blows my mind.

Lee: I know, it is really, really mind-blowing. And the reason—I just wanted to go back to the reason that they do use these ultra-processed foods within ingredients...

Irene: Is it cost savings?

Lee: There are a few things. It is cost savings; it’s actually to get you addicted to them as well. So what the—for example, if we’re talking about emulsifiers—they keep the textures really smooth. And then you have artificial sugars; they put that in there to make you think that you're going to, you know, not put on weight by eating them because you're not eating sugar. And then they use colorants to fake freshness. They put in stabilizers and flavor enhancers, and those things obviously enhance the flavor, but they also keep the shelf life longer and they give you that really irresistible kind of taste that you get addicted to. And they’re the real offenders, I think—the ingredients that quietly transform your regular food into something that's so far removed from nature. And yeah, they sneak into beauty products too.

Irene: Yeah, I just thought of something while you were saying that, actually. Because you know in beauty products how skincare products are full of junk that aren't good for you—made out of petrochemicals, parabens, whatever—they still smell really good. Yeah, the scent of them is probably—well, is—highly toxic, but they smell so good.

Lee: But do you know what, though? I actually don't like those perfumey-scented things. When you get something and it's so perfumed. If I put on a moisturizer, I like it to have no scent.

Irene: Oh, that's because you're such a "purest hippie." Yeah, but I mean, even me, like, I hate anything toxic, obviously. But I do love a smell, like, I do love something to smell nice when I put it on my skin. But you know what reminded me when you were saying that is—I mean, I don't eat soft bread because I really try and avoid gluten—but I will open a Tip Top, whatever, soft white bread loaf because Hubby will buy it, and I will put my nose in that bag and I will take a whiff and I'll be like, "That smells amazing." Yeah, I know I can't eat it, but that smells amazing. So again, all of these things are making the product smell and probably taste really good.

Lee: Yeah, and something in your body, I think, recognizes it and gets addicted to it.

Irene: Like even right now, even thinking about it, I’m almost salivating at the smell of fresh white bread straight from the bag. Even though I wouldn't eat it, I just love that fresh smell.

Lee: Yeah, yeah. But I feel like once you get used to eating homemade things or bakery items that have only—like a sourdough that have only got a few ingredients—then when you go back to the processed stuff, you can really taste it.

Irene: It smells like chemical, right?

Lee: Yeah, it does.

Irene: Yeah, I don't think I—yeah, for you, it would. I'm not quite there yet, but yeah, I can imagine it would. And that's exactly right with the skincare as well. So when you smell something that smells lovely, you know, from David Jones or whatever, and then you go to a health food store and open up something that’s, you know, got essential oils making it smell like vanilla, then you do go back and realize the other one does smell like chemical.

Lee: See, I love the smell of oil—sandalwood, bergamot—like anything like that, I really like the smell of, but anything too perfumey, yeah, it’s not for me.

Irene: There you go. So yeah, there is such a huge link between foods and ultra-processed foods and cosmetics and skincare. Probably all coming out of the same factory.

Lee: Yeah, well, all of these ingredients that you were listing are in skincare as well.

Irene: Okay, so Lee, you're in the supermarket, every aisle is full of these ultra-processed foods. Where do I go to find the products that are not ultra-processed? Or am I in the same aisle? So for example, I’m in the ham aisle and there's 7,000 different ham options. And this is true, a true story: I was looking for shredded chicken, and I was actually looking for a shredded chicken without preservatives in it, because you can get some without preservatives and all this junk in it. And I was there 20 minutes going through the back of every single packet, and they all had the same junk in it. Then I actually found one that didn't.

Lee: Oh, you did?

Irene: Yeah, I actually did. I wish I could remember which brand it was. I found one that didn't. So I thought, well, I mean, they're just hidden, aren't they? Like, there’s 20 bad things and then there's one good thing. You need to do another list, I think.

Lee: I think I need to do a list. You generally find them in the middle aisles of the supermarkets. However, they're also in the health food aisle, they’re in so many different products.

Irene: The good ones or the bad ones?

Lee: The bad ones.

Irene: Oh yeah, we know where the bad ones are. How do you find the good ones?

Lee: They're around the periphery of the supermarket, the more sort of like whole-food ingredients. However, you can still find things on the outside of the supermarkets that are full of crappy ingredients as well. They've crept their way definitely into those outer fridge aisles, you know where all the flavored yogurts are and the healthy protein snacks—definitely have found their way in there.

Irene: Do we need to shop at Harris Farms and different sorts, or can you get what you need from Woolies and Coles? Are they more expensive, the non-ultra-processed foods? They're probably more expensive, aren't they?

Lee: I think no, not necessarily. If you're buying in season, if you're buying in season, you can definitely find whole foods that are going to be a lot cheaper. Sometimes processed foods or ultra-processed foods may appear cheaper, but in the long run, when you are wrecking your gut lining with all of those emulsifiers and products and you're spending time trying to fix your gut and going to the doctor's office every week, in the long run, it's much more affordable to just eat whole foods.

Irene: So what exactly are we looking out for, then? Because it's super confusing. So is it something on the front or the back of the label that we can look out for? Will it say "100% natural" or will it say "no artificial something" or are we looking for something to avoid on the back?

Lee: I believe, like when I go to the supermarket and when I talk to my clients, I always say, "Flip the pack over, look at the ingredients list," and I've got a top six list which we can pop into the show notes of ones that should be avoided. Ones like CMC, E466, Polysorbate 80 (which is E433), Carrageenan (which is E407), Mono- and diglycerides (E471), Xanthan gum (E415), and Soy lecithin (E322). Not all emulsifiers are bad, but these ones are, and they’re in a lot of foods. In fact, they’re in over 10,000 different foods in the supermarket, believe it or not.

Irene: Yeah, so I thought some of those were okay. So xanthan gum I thought was okay; we know about soy lecithin as we talked about that last time. The carrageenan—is that how you pronounce it?

Lee: Carrageenan.

Irene: Carrageenan. That’s in jams, isn't it? I thought that was in jams and that—what is that? I thought that was okay.

Lee: Yeah, so carrageenan is actually a thickener and it’s derived from red seaweed. And it does sound natural, but when it's in the food industry—which is very, very common with things like this—it is used to give low-fat or dairy-free products—like, you know, like almond milk, the deli meats we were talking about, or yogurts—that creamy mouthfeel without the actual fat. However, it does interact with our digestive system, and there are so many studies that suggest that food-grade carrageenan can trigger inflammation in the gut, which is one of the worst things you can do for the gut. Inflammation is at the root cause of so many other long-term issues. So carrageenan is like pouring petrol onto a fire for your gut. It can break down those tight little junctions in your gut lining and it can lead to something called "leaky gut."

Irene: That's super interesting, because seaweed itself is fine. But I guess—which is the whole point of this episode—is that this seaweed has been ultra-ultra-processed. And once that seaweed has been not just processed, but ultra-ultra-processed, it's then been added to foods that are ultra-ultra-processed, and that's where you get something that sounds like it's okay because it's seaweed—and it's okay as seaweed—but once it’s been processed to the point where it’s going to be added to the food, that is when it becomes a problem. That's the issue, isn't it?

Lee: Yeah, absolutely right. There’s so many levels of processing there, like you say. And carrageenan can be in different products, for example, coconut milk. Coconut milk is a big one—you know the cans of coconut milk with just coconut and water? They add carrageenan to it to make it creamier. They put it in to make it creamy.

Irene: Are you kidding me? Because you would think that—well, don't even get me started on cans; that's actually an episode, another whole episode on the BPA in the cans—but you would think if you were buying coconut cream and the ingredients said "coconut cream," that it's just come from a coconut.

Lee: No, it's ultra-processed, isn't it? Exactly.

Irene: They sound like an ingredients for a laundry stain remover, Lee.

Lee: I know, they do.

Irene: This has actually made me a bit depressed.

Lee: You know, actually, speaking of detergents or laundry stain removers, that's kind of what they do in your gut. I'd love to talk a little bit about what they actually do when they hit your gut after eating them. So what they do is they break down the surface tension of your protective lining, the mucus lining of your gut. And when that layer thins out and—as I mentioned before—becomes leaky, that's when bacteria and toxins can slip through and trigger chronic inflammation throughout the gut. I’ve written about that in a lot of my books, particularly in my new book that's coming out, and I love that there's this recent research that have come out that has identified a clear link between emulsifiers and gut health. There are a lot of clinical observations that suggest when patients actually remove these additives, especially ones with gut issues already like Crohn's disease and things like that, they see a marked improvement, which is fantastic. So the gut can heal when you stop scrubbing it with these food chemicals.

Irene: So when we hear about "leaky gut"—because we all know leaky gut, but we don't actually know what that means—is that what it means?

Lee: Yeah.

Irene: The lining of the gut gets little perforations in it, little holes in it. So it's not smooth anymore, and there are little points where food and undigested food particles can get into the bloodstream through that lining. And then your body, your immune system goes, "Oh, what is that? That's a foreign invader. I'm going to start attacking it." So by doing that, I’m going to start creating a dysregulated immune system which—yeah, sees it as a foreign invader and starts creating inflammation in your body. Or you might get rashes after eating, you might get itchy after eating. I get itchy after I eat a lot of these E-numbers.

Irene: Yeah, I just had something before on the way here and I got itchy and...

Lee: Oh, what did you have?

Irene: I had that gluten-free banana bread. Yeah, are you feeling itchy now? I was feeling itchy. So the best way to avoid or heal these leaky gut issues that we hear about is to avoid all of these ultra-processed foods. I mean, it sounds really easy if only again, if only you could find these products.

Lee: I think at the source, the best thing to do is avoid them. At the source. And I know it is hard to avoid them, but and I think a lot of people think they're being super healthy by having the protein bars and going down that health food aisle and getting, you know, the "healthy bars," but they are the ones that have four or five ultra-processed ingredients within them. And they're probably the worst.

Irene: Yeah, this is just making me really angry, actually. Actually makes me really angry at the supermarkets, which I was already angry with the supermarkets. Well, Lee, I've got to say, before we started this podcast, I was avoiding all sorts of cow milk, so I was actually drinking a lot of almond milk and soy milk and oat milks. But and I have massive gut issues as well. So, and the whole point of me avoiding the milks was to try and fix all my gut issues. So this drives me crazy because now you're saying all these things are in—I mean, it's not just an almond and water. You could make your own nut milk; that would be okay still, wouldn't it?

Lee: Yeah, you can definitely make your own nut milk. Very easy to make, actually. Just whiz it up in the blender and then put it through some kind of sieve and then have it. It doesn't last very long in the fridge, but yeah, that's going to be a lot better.

Irene: I've made my own hemp milk before, and it's—why do we buy it? It’s so easy—just water and some hemp seeds or whatever, put it in a blender. I put a bit of vanilla in mine as well and sometimes a tiny bit of sea salt. I was going to say sea salt and a little bit of maple syrup.

Lee: Beautiful. That's a really good way to do it. It's interesting when you do go to the supermarket and you're looking at, you know, the vanilla almond milks, the barista ones that you go, "Oh, they're so creamy." The reason that they're so creamy is because they have emulsifiers and stabilizers in them so they don't split and so that they stay creamy. The common ones to look out for when you are in the supermarket with nut milks: CMC and E466. That's the one that's linked to gut barrier damage and tumor production in animal studies that we've seen.

Lee: The other one, xanthan gum, which we mentioned before—when you said to me you thought it was a good one—that can actually alter your microbiome balance and start to foster low-grade inflammation in the body as well. And then the soy lecithin, which we talk about a lot, and the polysorbate 80, which is the E433—this is associated with bacterial overgrowth in the gut. Which as you know, your microbiome has to be nice and balanced with good and bad bacteria. These emulsifiers and highly processed ingredients actually contribute to more bad bacteria in the gut. It upsets the balance and then it upsets your whole digestive system. No wonder you're feeling like yucky, itchy, tired after consuming these foods.

Irene: How about modified starches and sweeteners and flavors? Can you tell us about those?

Lee: Yeah, so those are used to thicken soups, sauces, and gluten-free mixes. So going gluten-free isn't necessarily always good. If you obviously have a problem with it, you should avoid it. However, if you're doing it to think that you're being healthy, it's not always a good thing. And what they do is they act like energy quicksand, so they're going to dump fast-digesting carbs into your bloodstream and they mask how processed the food really is. And then obviously you asked about sweeteners; we all know about those, you know, the sucralose, the aspartame—they fool your tongue into thinking that you're satiated and they confuse your hunger signals, actually.

Lee: And flavors, back to flavors—things like MSG, they're called "natural identical," and so what they do is they trick you into thinking like you're tasting strawberries—you know how you get things that are flavored, like strawberry flavored or smoked paprika flavor? But it's really just chemical ingredients that they put in, and they're the ones that also really trigger sensitivities and headaches in some people. I don't know if you've ever experienced headaches after eating something that's highly flavored.

Lee: And the last one was the colorants you asked about—they sort of give you that fake freshness and they freeze the texture and the freshness into place. But it's really an edible illusion. And as we mentioned before, it is a "Frankenstein" mix of engineered food to, you know, look pretty, stay pretty, hit all your pleasure buttons, but they actually do genuinely wreck your health.

Irene: So how about for those then that try and be healthy and believe that they have a pretty healthy pantry? Is there anything hidden? Like for example, sourdough. Sourdough is supposed to be really good for us; I'm going to guess that you're going to say it's bad or there's some bad ones out there. So, I don't know, let's start with sourdough.

Lee: Okay, sourdough. Healthy—bakery sourdough, homemade sourdough: mostly healthy. Supermarket sourdough: if you—I have looked at the labels, have you? And there's like 15 or more ingredients in those supermarket sourdoughs. They've got crumb improvers, stabilizers, preservatives. Real sourdough that you get from the bakery or make at home, you only really need flour, water, and salt. But the ones in the supermarket literally have 15 ingredients. That's when you know it's an ultra-processed food.

Lee: Other ones are things like hummus. You know hummus—you think, "Oh, and I make my own hummus; it's so easy to make, I love making hummus." But if you buy the one, you know you're having a lunch or something and you want to do some dips and some hummus and you buy it from the supermarket, you think it's really simple. But it's got refined seed oils in it, it's got potassium sorbate to keep it shelf-stable. Store-bought hummus is probably, you know, a real bad one.

Lee: And then obviously we talked about the nut milks already and the protein bars. I reckon the protein bars are my least favorite ultra-processed food and it's the one that people are so confused by. They're just candy bars dressed up with a lab-made protein isolate in them and a massive list of excipients and artificial sweeteners and flavors and gums and stabilizers. Yeah, it’s not a workout supplement, it’s not healthy for you—it may have a bit of protein, but it’s an ultra-processed food and it’s wrecking your gut. Sorry, I’m getting passionate.

Irene: No, it’s just the name they call it "protein bar" because people think, "Oh, just grab—I need more protein, I’ll grab one of those." But I think most of our listeners know protein bars are just chocolate bars—better off just getting some chocolate.

Lee: You actually are.

Irene: Yeah. Well, my—I think my pantry is pretty okay. I mean, I get my sourdough—I’m starting to eat again—since I’ve been doing this podcast with you, I’ve started to introduce gluten back into my diet because I’ve realized it wasn’t—it was actually the gluten-free foods that was making—contributing to my SIBO. And I’ve been getting the—is it the 48-hour sourdough from up at the bakery Avalon?

Lee: Oh, Bonfire?

Irene: Bonfire. How good is that?

Lee: So Bonfire is one you can buy from any supermarket; I think they distribute everywhere, don’t they?

Irene: I went—I was in Woolies the other day and our producer Justin always likes to have, like, his toast in the morning before he starts podcasting, and I found a really nice three-four ingredient sourdough. Did you like it, Justin, by the way? Was that—yeah, he’s nodding. Yeah, he's giving us the thumbs up.

Lee: Okay, yeah. So it is possible, you just have to sort through, you know, 10 aisles of junk to finally find one that's okay. But that Bonfire brand, I think that one’s definitely really good.

Irene: Me too.

 

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Segment: Women-Splain

Lee: Lee, I've got a question for you and, oh, this is such a good question. You know the Health Star Ratings? Because that's how my husband shops—on the Health Star Ratings.

Irene: He does.

Lee: Yeah, yeah, he bases everything on that. Because for example, margarine will have like five stars so he'll buy that... No, he doesn't actually buy margarine, but you know what I mean. Yeah, that's—I mean, what is going on there? What is going on with these—surely, surely we can't trust those health stars, can we?

Irene: I—it's so weird with that rating. Sometimes I look at things and go, "This has got a four-star rating," and I turn over the back and it's just full of junk ingredients. I think take the health star ratings with a massive grain of salt—excuse the pun—a lot of sugary cereals can get four stars. I mean, you know.

Irene: But there are things that we can do instead. So for example, if you're looking at your label, right, you've got an—you’ve got a product and you're looking at your label: Certified Organic, which is ACO or NASAA in Australia. If you see the bud logo, it means restrictions on some of the most damaging industrial solvents and synthetic emulsifiers that we've talked about are not in there, which is really good.

Lee: Same with skincare, same with beauty. Yeah, if you're just not sure, just always go for something that is Australian and certified organic because then, you know, the hard work's sort of done for you.

Irene: But in food too, organic—I don't know if it's the same as beauty, but it doesn't automatically mean health. Because you could have an organic sugar or organic highly processed snack as well. But it is a cleaner production process and—but it's not necessarily balanced nutritionally.

Lee: No, of course, but I guess if a—yeah, you can probably get certified organic chocolate that's got certified organic cane sugar in it. I'd still take that—everything in moderation, you gotta use common sense—but I'd still take that over any of those protein bars that are sugar-free, for example.

Irene: Agree. The non-GMO standard logo as well—Australian Organic do that as well. So you’ve got the organic and the non-GMO. That’s a good one to look for.

Lee: I didn't think there was GMO in Australia.

Irene: Well, Australian labeling laws are actually quite loose on GMOs. So if an ingredient is highly refined, like, you know, like canola oil or lecithin, it doesn't have to be labeled as a GMO, but that actually is a GMO.

Lee: Oh, don't even get me started on that. Is everything though that we've spoken about—if we avoid—are we also avoiding those ultra-processed GMOs then?

Irene: I mean, I think the thing is to try and have as less ingredients as possible. So if you're looking at your label, right, and you see some things with like 15 plus ingredients, you know that it's probably going to have a lot of those things in it. Anything with a number in front of it: probably heavily processed.

Lee: For the last five years, up until last year, I decided that I was going to go vegetarian. Because I watched that documentary on—that you shouldn't eat meat. Anyway, so then I stopped eating meat.

Irene: "Forks Over Knives"? Is that the one?

Lee: Yeah, I think it was that one. It was where they were showing bodybuilders that were vegan. And I thought, "Oh, this is really inspiring." So I thought, I'll do that. Anyway, so in that time, I consumed many of those fake meat burgers. Can't remember what they're called.

Irene: Yeah, they've got the soy protein isolate in that and so many fake, fake products in them. I mean, they just can't be good, can they?

Lee: Not good for the gut. No, well, I have—really interesting, the worst gut issues I've ever had from when I decided to stop eating meat. I'm back on—I'm back on meat and I've never felt better. I just have a burger now, just have a burger, right? Sorry, I shouldn't say that because I know there's a lot of vegan and vegetarians out there, but I tried it—I really genuinely tried it—and wrecked my gut.

Irene: I mean, when I went to India to study Ayurvedic medicine over there, I decided that I was going to be a vegetarian. I came back and I was so inflamed—like my joints were aching, I was super inflamed—and then I just started eating meat again and just more of a whole-foods style, and I felt so much better.

Lee: Yeah, so I'm now—because I said at my family, so happy that I was eating meat again because everyone was just having different meals at home. Oh, really? Yeah, I said, "Alright, if we're going to do—grass-fed, we're going to do grass-fed certified organic." And my poor husband fell off his chair because it's so expensive, but I was like, "That's it, we're just going to get the really good meat."

Irene: Can I just give you a few—just a few little swap-outs? Because I want to give people some swap-outs so that it will help them rather than just telling them all the bad news. So, when you're in the supermarket:

• Just do not go anywhere near those fruit yogurts; just go for plain Greek yogurt with berries, much better.

• When you're going for supermarket bread, go for a sourdough with three or four ingredients or if you can, get it from a bakery; that's going to be better.

• Instead of all those sodas—like, you know you’ve got the—I actually really like them but I don't drink them anymore, but you know the ginger ale, the sugar-free ginger ale or ginger beer? I love that, the Bundaberg one. However, I noticed that it had citric acid and a whole lot of junk in it. So instead of doing that, just do herbal tea, do sodas—like just plain soda—it's going to be a lot better.

Irene: Yeah, so it's not about being perfect, you know. It's just about trying to minimize the amount of ultra-processed foods that your body is handling.

Lee: Well, thank you so much, Lee. That was really educational, really interesting, a real eye-opener for me as well. And I think I'm pretty healthy, but even like even I’ve got some of that stuff at home and the nut milks—we’ve just got to make our own nut milks and we just have to go back to basics.

Irene: The milk that I drink personally is the lactose-free A2 milk, normal milk.

Lee: Yes, so you told me that last time and now I went home and I said to my husband—who does all the shopping—I said, "Can you just get the A2 milk from now on?" Because he doesn't—he can't have lactose, and I don't know why he still gets the regular milk. And I noticed in the fridge he had bought it.

Irene: Oh, good.

Lee: So I'm going to start—because we do need calcium, especially as we get older and for menopause.

Irene: I do like cheese.

Lee: Yeah, I love cheese. I love goat's cheese. Goat's cheese is my favorite.

Irene: So do I. Actually, I love goat's cheese as well. Okay, thank you Lee, that's—I need to re-look at my pantry, but thank you.

Lee: So the unfiltered takeaway for the week is stop looking at the front of the pack. Flip it over and if there are more than five ingredients or a string of E-numbers that look like a chemistry final, then just put it back on the shelf. Is that right?

Irene: Yep, yep. Stick to those green flags—Certified Organic, non-GMO, real whole foods—and your gut will stop feeling like it's been through a dishwasher and your energy will actually last.

Lee: And put those blinkers on and race through those middle aisles and spend more time in that fresh produce section, right?

Irene: Yeah, it's not about being perfect, it's just about being aware. Don't let the Big Food or Big Beauty boys trick you.

Lee: Yeah, UPFs are so creepy. I want to go Doo doo doo doo doo doo.

 

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Segment: Women-Splain (With Guest Justin)

Irene: All right, it's time for Women-Splain, which I don't need to explain of course to our female listeners, but in the unlikely event we have a male listening, it's where us women folk explain a health or beauty issue to our men folk. Fortunately, we have an "every man," Justin, to ask the questions on behalf of every man. What you got for us this week, Justin?

Justin: Hello, you two. Um, thanks always for offering to explain things to me. I have another topic for your input. But before I do, in a huge coincidence, I have a tube of that Weleda Salt Toothpaste that my sister from Canberra left behind when she was staying at my place. And it’s been sitting there forlornly in my shower caddy until you mentioned it in, I think, Ep 4. And I tried it and it tasted just like the label said it would, and if I wanted that kind of saltwater rinse, I'd go for a surf. But I did kind of persist, and I’ve begun to really like the taste and crave it a bit, and the feel it leaves behind is amazing—really clean and smooth feeling all day. I really noticed a difference.

Lee: It’s actually addictive, isn't it? I actually look forward to brushing my teeth with that.

Justin: Yeah, and the first time, there was no way I was going to use it. But anyway, I trust—I trusted your advice on that.

Lee: I know what I'm—I know what I'm doing over here.

Justin: Yeah, you do. And I dig the metal tube because I can reuse it to fill my cavities, so there's that too. Anyway, I'll move on quick. As a primate, I'm interested in grooming. Not like very interested, mind you, but somewhat interested in grooming. Can you give me some basics please? I'm actually not really sure where to start.

Lee: Well, Justin, just simple grooming will freshen up your look and even how you feel about yourself. First up, treat yourself to a styled haircut, not like a $15 buzz cut from the barber/tobacconist. And for goodness' sake, ask your barber to trim those rogue hairs—back of the neck, ears, nose, all those other weird places that you've got that hair sprouting from.

Justin: The nose. But why are you looking at me when you talk about weird rogue hair? I get it, and those ciggy-stained fingers...

Lee: Are you looking at my chin hairs as you said that?

Justin: No, are you looking at my ear hairs? I think everybody's just checking out each other's hair. Yeah, a different barber would be good because those ciggy-stained fingers running through my hair kind of makes me gag.

Lee: I'd love to see you just—actually, I'd love to see you with a clean shave, actually. Because you've always had that stubble, that salt-and-pepper stubble for as long as I've known you. I've known you for a long time. I've actually known you for I think as long, if not longer, than I've known Lee.

Justin: Maybe. Yeah, um, yeah. I don't reckon I'd be allowed in pubs, you know, they—I haven't got my ID with me and all that.

Lee: I think you'll be—I think you'll be okay.

Justin: Okay, I'll try that. Next time I see you, I'll have a clean shave.

Lee: You know there's a lot of—well, I wouldn't say a lot, actually—there's a couple of really good, like, aftershave and those sorts of things as well that are organic and that are toxin-free if you did want to have a shave and a little splash. I think that would really freshen up your look actually, it would make you probably look 10 years younger.

Justin: Okay. Yeah, can you maybe um, give me a list and we'll put it in the show notes?

Lee: Yeah, we will. I'm going to—you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to do a list for the show notes for—for men, like a "men's pack." Because we do have, like, Dr. Bronner's do a really great—they do a range of really great shaving creams so you can have a shaving cream. Weleda do fantastic men's aftershave. And I’ve talked about this before, but there are lots of brands that I have that do for men as well, "two or three in ones," because we know you're simple creatures. So, you know, just keep that in the shower and you can wash your hair and your body and your beard or whatever all at once. It’s just nice and simple and the smell—it smells really good, but all of the scent is all based from botanicals, all botanicals or pure essential oils.

Justin: Yeah, that sounds fantastic. And I wouldn't mind um, having—trying that serum that you mentioned the other week.

Lee: Okay, so this is the thing, this is the thing with men. Wash your face in the shower with your two-in-one or your three-in-one wash. All you need, apart from sunscreen if you're going outside, is one simple serum or oil. And I know last time we spoke, I said you just need one thing. The Kora Organics Noni Glow Oil—oh my goodness. If you only ever wear one thing—even women—if you only put one thing on, that's all you need.

Irene: I’ve got that on today.

Lee: It is so—isn't it so good? I love it. I love the color of it; it's quite dark. Like, it doesn't show dark on your skin, but in the bottle it's dark and then you put it on and it just blends so beautifully into your skin. It is an instant glow, but it’s Certified Organic, it’s pure cold-pressed concoction of oils. And it's—it's just such a beautiful, beautiful product. It isn't cheap, but you only need a couple of drops. There's no fillers in it. So just put that on your face, let it dry, pop your sunscreen on and you are seriously good to go. It's all you need.

Justin: Yeah, fantastic. And again, this is why Women-Splain is so great. One step is one step too much for me, so yeah.

Irene: But yeah, I think you're right too, and hair, skin and nails—they are the kind of "groomiest" parts of the body, but you can also protect and look after those areas with nutrition. So for example, your hair, skin and nails—obviously drinking more water is number one. Putting in some—I think "gamifying," we talked about that last week, didn't we? Gamifying your water bottle is really good. Adding some electrolytes in there, some fulvic humic concentrate.

Irene: The opposite of hydration and water and skin glowing that you were talking about is alcohol. I think, you know, it's so super dehydrating, and obviously with your broken capillaries that we discussed last week—a couple of weeks ago—it's, you know, you can cut back on—if you do cut back on alcohol, that is going to help a lot. You know, less "pruney," more "plumpy."

Irene: And then finally on the food front, I reckon the best grooming idea for you, Justin, is to mindfully eat. Just—I know you eat quite fast, but just chewing your mouthful more times and chewing nicely, um, not scoffing or being in a rush. I think that's going to be better for your digestion—less bloating, less gas.

Justin: Again with the "look." Um, why do you unblinkingly look at me when you said "gas"? You weren't looking at me before that word and then anyway... thank you so much for all that advice. It was really useful because it was nice and simple and but still informative. And so yeah, thank you for explaining those things. And in return, which would you like me to explain—Cricket's "leg before wicket" rule?

Lee: Cue the cicadas. Hang on, were we talking about cricket the cricket or the cricket the game, the sport, or both?

Justin: They're just—showcases how much you need to be "splained" about it, so I'm happy to do that.

Lee: No, that’s okay. We're good.

 

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Segment: You’re On Speaker (With Guest Kate)

Lee: So now it is time for You’re On Speaker, where we speak to a lovely listener, and today we are speaking with Kate. Hi Kate, you're on speaker!

Kate: Oh hi guys, hi Irene and Lee. Um, hey, I was actually put onto your podcast—I don't normally listen to them, but a friend of mine put me onto it, particularly the one about sunscreen because I've never really trusted sunscreens and I hate the fact that, you know, it’s absorbed into our skin and our liver has to deal with it all. And then I listened to all of them.

Lee: And what did you think, Kate?

Kate: I know, I really liked it because as you sort of said, it's really good facts without the hype. You know, and there's not—high pick-up is that you guys have both where you are through experience as well as study and knowledge. Like Lee, I think you said you had gut issues or something and that's why you developed these products and the um, the books and the recipes to help heal your gut. And that's what I particularly like, is coming from experience—you can learn stuff, but unless you've actually been there and gone through it, um, it—it seems very real when you've experienced it.

Lee: Oh, thanks Kate. Thank you.

Irene: So I've got to ask you, Kate, what is your superpower?

Kate: I think it is in—I’ve got a few, nothing you can put on a business card, but um, the one that I'm sort of renowned for in my circle of friends is second-hand clothes, particularly clothing, but recycling, reusing, rehoming—and particularly in clothing. Like, I don't think I've bought anything new in at least 10 years. And what I love is because um, I've got a lot of very well-dressed friends, and if I wear something, I wait like sometimes even a day or two before I reveal that "Oh, Ben's, two bucks," and watch their faces drop.

Lee: Wow, that's fantastic. I love that superpower. I'm pretty good in that area too—most of my house and clothes have had a very long and eventful life. Um, I think I could win a regional or even state title maybe, but I think you'd win the national title.

Kate: People ask me to find things for them and I will, but if someone says, "Oh, I'll pay you to do it," I think that's when the magic stops. If they offered to pay me to do it, I wouldn't be able to find it.

Lee: I love that superpower. Am I hearing cicadas?

Irene: Yes. We’re in the cabin, and at about this time every day the cicadas come out and it's just all organic. They're organic.

Lee: Or they've just stopped. It's magical.

Irene: It is actually, it's very magical. Thank you, Lee, for the cicadas. So Kate, do you have any questions for us?

Kate: Yeah, I do, and it's about the whole health industry really. Um, I just don't know who to trust. You know, I've got such a um, a disdain for Big Pharma because I think they're full of lies—they just tell you what you want to hear. Like for instance, um, I've got diabetes and I've had it for over 30 years. And I follow chat groups all around the world of diabetics, and we help each other out, we give each other the best, you know, lived-through experience advice, the best, you know, lived experience advice that the best endocrinologist will kind of get but not really get unless you've lived it.

Kate: And then we keep hearing like there's a cure—particularly you know in the stem cell area—but we all scoff because we keep hearing it over the last 30 years and it’s always just so close, but it’s never going to happen because of the money involved. They're making a gazillion dollars out of all the products and the things—the accoutrement—you need for diabetes. So if there was a cure, there you go, all that's gone. Big Pharma, I don't like it.

Lee: Well, I can hear your frustration—trust nobody... No, I'm not allowed to say that. I'm sure there are people you can trust, Lee. Who do we trust in the wellness industry?

Lee: Yeah, I mean, it is a heavy question in nutrition circles as well, Kate, and one that resonates with actually a lot of my clients, a lot of people that I talk to. That healthy distrust is actually your best asset, though; it is a vital attribute I think to maintaining agency over your own personal health. And although I'm not a specialist in diabetes myself, I think the rules for uncovering the truth are universal. And so, yeah, but in terms of, you know, from my nutritional studies and books, I love to back everything up with facts. And so, I'm not into the "woo woo," and I've actually become quite adept at finding incredible sources and sifting through all that Big Pharma and big business malarkey.

Lee: I would—one of the first things I would say is, you know, "follow the money." Whenever you see a breakthrough, scroll straight to the bottom of the page and see who is funding that declaration. Not all science is—yeah, not all science is equal. So those randomized controlled trials, they're probably the gold standard, I would say. I love to use PubMed or clinicaltrials.gov—those sites are quite transparent.

Lee: Yeah, and trusting the boring bodies as well. Like in Australia, we are actually quite lucky with the Therapeutic Goods Administration (TGA) and Food Standards Australia New Zealand. They're both incredibly strict and they don't care about the vibe of a product's claim; they care about proving you can make approved claims. That's their big thing. Especially for us in our products, they really—we have to really make sure everything is scrutinized; we go through legal to check everything on our products. So yeah, reading labels is definitely a necessity. And there's massive fines and costly recalls for products that lie and stretch the truth for sure.

Irene: That's actually true. Like, as much as I say "trust no one," like really, that the TGA, the ACCC, and the Food Standards—they really are I think the gold standard almost probably for the world. They are so strict. In like, even with me with packaging, you have to prove everything that you say on the packaging. So if I was importing—which I am actually at the moment—grabbing a really great BB cream from America, and it's an SPF 30 BB cream. Now, because it's a BB cream and not a sunscreen, I don't need to go through the TGA with that. But that doesn't mean just because I don't have to go through the TGA I shouldn't—I cannot sell it saying it's an SPF 30 on the label unless it is actually tested that it actually meets that claim. So that's then gotta go through the ACCC. So I think having those guardrails in place in Australia is super important and I think that does make them—it does hold brand and retailers accountable. And I think that yeah, they can be trusted. And we like to, you know, say we all hate Big Pharma and all of those things, but at the end of the day, I do think that they have a really important place here and I do think that they are three bodies that we can trust.

Kate: The regulatory bodies? Oh gosh, yes. I'd be dead. I'd be dead without Big Pharma.

Lee: Yeah, exactly. Irene, do you remember that hack about the—the TGA hack that you mentioned a few episodes back and the backstory with the AUST L numbers?

Irene: Yeah, well that's actually interesting. I just talked about like that we can trust the TGA, but actually this is one thing about the TGA that does annoy me. So the TGA say you don't need to put all of your ingredients on a product if it is a TGA listed product. You only have to put the active ingredient. So for example, yeah I was saying for sunscreens, you know, you can have your active ingredient being I don't know 22% zinc oxide, and that is all you need to list on the label, and then it can have like a hundred other ingredients—I'm obviously exaggerating but you know what I mean. And they don't need to be on the label. So in that list of ingredients could be, you know, silicones and phenoxyethanol—I don't know if they have to disclose—paraben... yeah, I don't know if they have to also disclose the preservative, you might. I think they only have to disclose actives and the allergens, but perhaps the preservatives as well because they could be an allergen. In any case, it's not until you actually type in the AUST L number into the TGA website where you actually get the full ingredients list. So that's a hack to double-check anything that is TGA listed to seeing everything that is in the—on the pack. So I guess the TGA at least, at least they make you list it somewhere. It’s just that not everyone knows to go and and do that cross-check.

Irene: Because you'd think by turning the label over, because you've got to add all of the ingredients—this is the thing that's confusing. If it's a not a TGA listed product and it's just a normal product, then you have to list everything. But because it's got the AUST L number on the front, you only have to list, you know, the actives or the allergens or whatever. So I think that—I don't know if everyone knows that, but super confusing.

Lee: I think, you know, it's healthy to have some skepticism around health and we have agency over our own health and I think at the end of the day, it's an individual thing, don't you think? And we have the power to choose the products we buy, to the foods that we eat, to where we shop, and... yeah.

Irene: Yeah, I think obviously you can't with diabetes and, you know, lots of illnesses, but if we can do everything we can to avoid having to lean on Big Pharma as much as possible.

Lee: Well, thanks so much, Kate, for coming on today.

Kate: Thanks guys.

Irene: Thanks Kate!

 

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Segment: Your 60-Second Rant or Rave

Lee: Hey Irene, do you have a minute?

Irene: Does this mean I can have a rant for a minute?

Lee: Yes, it's time for our 60-second Rant or Rave where one of us—you this week—gets to vent or validate something in wellness or beauty. And by the look of your white knuckles on the mic stand, I’m guessing it’s you and I’m guessing that you have a rant. Okay, Miss Falcone, on your marks, get set, Rant.

Irene: Am I allowed to have a personal rant? This is a personal rant, so I hope I don't get in trouble for this. My rant is going to be on natural and clean beauty stores that sell products that are really not that natural or clean. And I've got a lot of personal experience on this because I remember when I sold Nourished Life. I remember that I had sold it to a company and then that company ended up sort of dismantling and then we—we got a new CEO. So I ended up with with a whole bunch of people I didn't technically sell the business to. And the new CEO asked me, "Irene, we need to increase revenue." So um, in my cause when I sold the business, we—they weren't allowed to change my ingredients policy and start adding new products to it that were on my banned list basically.

Lee: So you were—you’d sold the business but you were still working in the business?

Irene: Yes, I had sold the business with all intention to keep working on the business. We'll have to do another whole episode on why I sold the business and who to and how that ended up, but what had happened was it ended—the management changed over and I ended up with a whole bunch of people that I was stuck with. And my contract was still there so I, you know, everything was still in place. But they wanted to change the contract and expand the brands and products that I could sell. And in order to do that, they needed to sort of win me over: "Listen, we know we got this contract Irene, but we really want to increase revenue, and to increase revenue, we want to add all these new brands."

Irene: And I said to them, "Well, I think if you want to increase revenue, you should actually cut 20% or you know of the products. Not add 20% more products." And he thought I was crazy. I was like, "Well because by tightening up your range, you're giving people a clearer direction on how to shop. As the everybody starts saying that everything is clean and natural, that clearly are not clean and natural. As we move more and more into everything is now clean and natural because we've taken out a paraben, now is the time that we need to cut down the range and be more specific. Not add all those—think 'Oh, hang on, they've called this product clean because they've taken paraben out, great, let's put this fake natural product in and let's get more money.'" And I just didn't think that was the right thing to do. Anyway, I ended up leaving over that.

Lee: Oh, is that why you left?

Irene: Yeah, that was one of the main reasons that I had—well that and the fact that they weren't able to send any orders out correctly to my customers. But that's just a whole other story and a whole other rant. But I think my biggest rant now is the new owners of poor Nourished Life’s changed over so many times now. The new owners have gone back to adding more and more of those fake meat burgers... I can’t remember what they're called.

Lee: Yeah.

Irene: They're not good for us, are they?

Lee: They've got the soy protein isolate in that and so many fake, fake products in them. I mean they just can't be good, can they?

Irene: Not good for the gut. No, well, I have—really interesting, the worst gut issues I've ever had from when I decided to stop eating meat. I'm back on—I'm back on meat and I've never felt better. I just have a burger now, just have a burger, right? Sorry, I shouldn't say that because I know there's a lot of vegan and vegetarians out there, but I tried it—I really genuinely tried it—and wrecked my gut.

Lee: I mean, when I went to India to study Ayurvedic medicine over there, I decided that I was going to be a vegetarian. I came back and I was so inflamed—like my joints were aching, I was super inflamed—and then I just started eating meat again and just more of a whole-foods style, and I felt so much better.

Irene: Yeah, so I'm now—because I said at my family, so happy that I was eating meat again because everyone was just having different meals at home. Oh, really? Yeah, I said, "Alright, if we're going to do—grass-fed, we're going to do grass-fed certified organic." And my poor husband fell off his chair because it's so expensive, but I was like, "That's it, we're just going to get the really good meat."

 

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Outro

Lee: Well, thank you so much, Lee. That was really educational, really interesting, a real eye-opener for me as well. And I think I'm pretty healthy, but even like even I’ve got some of that stuff at home and the nut milks—we’ve just got to make our own nut milks and we just have to go back to basics.

Irene: The milk that I drink personally is the lactose-free A2 milk, normal milk.

Lee: Yes, so you told me that last time and now I went home and I said to my husband... "Can you just get the A2 milk from now on?" Because he doesn't—he can't have lactose... And I noticed in the fridge he had bought it.

Irene: Oh, good.

Lee: So I'm going to start—because we do need calcium, especially as we get older and for menopause.

Irene: I do like cheese.

Lee: Yeah, I love cheese. I love goat's cheese. Goat's cheese is my favorite.

Irene: So do I. Actually, I love goat's cheese as well. Okay, thank you Lee, that's—I need to re-look at my pantry, but thank you.

Lee: So the unfiltered takeaway for the week is stop looking at the front of the pack. Flip it over and if there are more than five ingredients or a string of E-numbers that look like a chemistry final, then just put it back on the shelf. Is that right?

Irene: Yep, yep. Stick to those green flags—Certified Organic, non-GMO, real whole foods—and your gut will stop feeling like it's been through a dishwasher and your energy will actually last.

Lee: And put those blinkers on and race through those middle aisles and spend more time in that fresh produce section, right?

Irene: Yeah, it's not about being perfect, it's just about being aware. Don't let the Big Food or Big Beauty boys trick you. Yeah, UPFs are so creepy. I want to go Doo doo doo doo doo doo.

Irene: Well, thank you so much, Lee. That was really educational, really interesting, a real eye-opener for me as well. And I think I'm pretty healthy, but even like even I’ve got some of that stuff at home and the nut milks—we’ve just got to make our own nut milks and we just have to go back to basics.

Irene: And please hit that subscribe button so you can catch every episode of Wellness Unfiltered and share this chat with a friend. We are doing this on our own. And I don't know if you know this, but Lee is actually doing all of the uploading and producing herself with Justin.

Lee: I love learning new things!

Irene: I can't believe you figured out how to get it onto Apple! I thought—because I genuinely thought we needed to get a big agency or big production company because I had that last time with my first podcast and I was paying them so much money. And you just figured it out.

Lee: I love to simplify things and to learn—I love to learn things. And I'm a little bit techy, so I'm lucky like that.

Irene: Yeah, you're amazing. I have to say I couldn't believe it when I searched it on—because I—I love my Apple podcast and it just popped up and I was amazed, I felt famous.

Lee: Yeah, and you can rate/review us on Apple or Spotify. You can also find us on Substack as well where we also do some longer posts. And we'll see you back in the cabin next week!

Irene: Bye! Mwah!